Syed Rahmatullah Hashimi
(Senior
Advisor to Amir ul-Mu'mineen, Mullah 'Umar, Afghanistan)
MARCH 10, 2001
UNIVERSITY OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA,
LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA
*Note: [--] Indicate words that were not heard clearly
in the recording.
I was just coming from [a meeting with] a group of scholars, and
the first thing we started there was the statues. And the first
thing we started here was also the statues. It s very unfortunate
how little we see and how little we know. And it really confuses
me, if people really know that little or not. Nobody has seen
the problems of Afghanistan; nobody saw their problems before.
And the only thing that represents Afghanistan today are the statues.
The problem of Afghanistan was not new. As you know that Afghanistan
is called, The Crossroads of Asia. So, we are suffering because
of our geo-strategic location. We have suffered in the 18th century,
19th century, and we are still suffering in this century.
We have not attacked the British. We have not attacked the
Russians. It was them who attacked us. So the problems in
Afghanistan you see is not our creation. That reflects the image
of the world. If you don't like the image in the mirror, do
not break the mirror; break your face.
The problems in Afghanistan started in 1979. Afghanistan
was a peaceful country and it was doing its own job. The Russians,
along with their 140,000 troops attacked Afghanistan in the December
of 1979, just 21 years ago, stayed there for a decade, killed
one and a half million people, maimed one million more people,
and six million out of the eighteen million people migrated because
of the Russian brutalities. Even today, our children are dying
because of the landmines that they planted for us. And nobody
knows about this.
After the Russians left during the Russian occupation, on the
other side, the American government, the British government, the
French, the Chinese, and all of the rest, supported the counter-revolutionaries
called the Mujahideen; 7 parties only in Pakistan and 8 parties
in Iran who fought the Russian occupation. And after the Russians
left, these parties went into Afghanistan. All of them had different
ideologies, a lot of weapon[s]. And instead of having a single
administration, they fought in Afghanistan. The destruction
that they brought was worse than the destruction the Russians
brought. 63,000 people were only killed in the capitol, Kabul.
Seeing all this chaos, and the complete destruction of our country,
and I don't have to forget that after the Soviets left, another
million people migrated because of the lawlessness that existed
in Afghanistan 7 million people.
So seeing this destruction and lawlessness, a group of students
called the Taliban (Taliban is the plural word of students
in our language; it may be two students in Arabic, but in our
language it means students) so a group of students started a movement
called the Movement of Students. It first started in a village
in the southern province of Afghanistan, called Kandahar. It happened
when a war-lord, or a commander abducted two minor girls, raped
them, and the parents of those girls went to a school and asked
the teacher of the school to help them. The teacher of that school,
along with his 53 students, finding only 16 guns, went and attacked
the base of that commander. After releasing those two girls, they
hanged that commander, and so many of their [the commander s]
people were also hanged. This story was told everywhere; and this
was called the terrorist story of the Taliban, or the Students.
BBC also quoted this story. Seeing or hearing this story, many
other students joined this movement and started disarming the
rest of the warlords, who were worse than these. I will not prolong
this story so far, this same students movement controls 95%
of the country; they captured the capitol, including the four
major cities. And only a bunch of those warlords are remaining
in the northern corridor of Afghanistan.
So our achievements are as follows. We
are in a government for only five years, and the following things
that we have done, and many of you may not know:
* The first thing we have done is reunify the fragmented
country. Afghanistan was formerly fragmented into five parts.
The first thing we have done is to reunify that country. The United
Nations, the United States, everybody was confused as to how to
reunify that country, and
nobody could do it. First thing we have done is to reunify that
country.
* Second thing we have done, which everybody failed to
do, was disarming a population. After dealing [with] the war of
the Russians, and the Americans I would say, every Afghan got
a Kalashnikov, and even sophisticated weapons such as stinger
missiles, and they even got fighter planes and fighter helicopters.
So disarming these people was impossible. The United Nations in
1992 passed an appeal asking for 3 billion dollars to re-purchase
that arms, to start a process of repurchasing those arms. And
suddenly, because of its impracticalibility, that plan never materialized,
and everybody forgot about Afghanistan. So the second thing we
have done is to disarm 95% of that country.
* And the third thing that we have done is to establish
a single administration under Afghanistan, which did not exist
for 10 years.
* And the fourth achievement that we have that is surprising
to everybody is that we have eradicated 75% of all worlds Opium
cultivation. Afghanistan produced 75% of all worlds Opium. The
drug, you know that Opium? The Narcotics business? And last year
we issued an
edict asking the people to stop growing Opium, and this year,
the United Nations Drug Control Program, UNDCP, and their head,
[Mr.] Barnard F., proudly announced that there was 0% of Opium
cultivation. Not at all. And this was not a good news for UN itself
because many of them lost their jobs. In the UNDCP, 700 so called
experts were working there and they got their salaries and they!
never went into Afghanistan. So when we issued this edict, I know
that they were not happy. And this year they lost their jobs.
And this was our fourth achievement.
* The fifth achievement that we have, but it s a little
controversial, some of our friends will not know is the restoration
of Human rights. Now, YOU may think that is a violation
of Human Rights, but from OUR perspective that is the restoration
of Human Rights. Because usually [among] the fundamental
rights of a human being is the right to Live. Before us, nobody
could live peacefully in Afghanistan. So the first thing we have
done, begun [to give] to the people is a secure and peaceful life.
The second major thing that we have restored is to give them free
and fair justice; you don't have to buy justice, unlike here.
You will have justice freely. And you have criticized us for violating
women s rights; now, who knows what happened before us. Only some
symbolic schools, or symbolic posts were given to some women in
the ministry, and that was called the restoration of women s rights.
I can see some Afghans living here, and they will agree with me,
that in the rural areas of Afghanistan, women were used as
animals. They were SOLD actually. The first thing we
have done is to give the self-determination to women, and it
happened not in the history of Afghanistan.
Throughout the history of Afghanistan, during all the so-called
civilized kings or whatever, they didn t give this right to women,
so women were sold.! They didn t have the right to select their
husbands, or to reject their husbands. First thing we have done
is to let them choose their future. And you will know that throughout
south Asia, women are killed under the title of honor killings.
It happens when a woman s relation is detected with a man, whether
or not the relation was sexual, they're both killed. But now this
is not happening in our country. And the third thing that happened
only in Afghanistan, was women were exchanged as gifts; this was
not something religious; this was something cultural. When two
tribal tribes were fighting among themselves, then in order to
get their tribal issue reconciliated, they would exchange women,
and then [they]! would make, or announce reconciliation. And this
has been stopped.
If we [had to give] fundamental rights of woman, we had to start
from zero; we couldn t jump in the middle. Now you ve asked me
about the rights of women s education and the rights of women's
work. Unlike what is said here, women do work in Afghanistan.
You're right that until 1997 I mean, in 1996 when we captured
the capitol Kabul, we did ask women to stay home. It didn t mean
that we wanted them to stay at home forever, but nobody listened
to us. We said that there is no law, and there is no order, and
have to stay at home. They were raped before us, everyday. So,
after we disarmed the people, and after we brought law and order,
and now women are working. You are right that women are not working
in the ministry of defense, like here.
We don't want our women to be fighter pilot[s], or to be
used as objects of decoration for advertisements. But they do
work. They work in the Ministry of Health, Interior, Ministry
of Education, Ministry of Social Affairs, and so on. So, and we
don't have any problem with women s education. We have said that
we want education, and we will have education whether or not we
are under anybody s pressure, because that is part of our belief.
We are ordered to do that. When we say that there should be segregated
schools, it does not mean that we don't want our women to be educated.
It is true that we are against co-education; but it is not true
that we are against women s education. We do have schools even
now, but the problem is the resources. We cannot expand these
programs.
Before, our government there were numerous curriculums that were
going on; there were curriculums which preached the king for the
kings, and there were curriculums which preached for the communists,
and there were curriculums from all these seven parties [the previously
mentioned]. So, the Students were confused as to what to study,
and the first we have done today is to unify that curriculum,
and that's going on. But we are criticized, and we say that instead
of criticism, if you just help us once, that will make a difference.
Because criticism will not make a difference. If you [talk?] criticism
from New York, thousands of miles away, we don't care. But if
you come there and help us, we do care. So actually there are
more girls students studying in the faculty of medical sciences
than boys are. This is not me who is saying this, it is the
United Nations who has announced this.
Recently we reopened the faculty of medical science in all major
cities of Afghanistan and in Kandahar, there are more girl students
than boys. But they are segregated. And the Swedish
committees have also established schools for girls. I know they
are not enough, but that s what we can do. So, that is what I
say that we have restored. I don't say we are 100% perfect, and
nobody will say that they are 100% perfect. We do have shortcomings,
and we do need to amend our policies. But we can't do everything
over night.
* And the sixth problem, that we are... is it sixth or
seventh? Seventh I think the seventh problem that we are accused
of is Terrorism, or the existence of terrorists in Afghanistan.
And for Americans terrorism or terrorist means only bin Laden.
Now you will not know that Afghanistan, or bin Laden was in Afghanistan
17 years before even we existed. Bin Laden was in Afghanistan,
fought the Soviet Union, and Mr. Ronald Reagan, the president
of America in that time, and Dick, Mr. Dick Chaney called such
people freedom fighters or the Heroes of Independence, because
they were fighting for their cause. So Osama bin Laden was one
of those guys who was instigated by such media reports, so in
that provocation by these countries to go to Afghanistan and fight
the Soviets there. And now when the Soviet Union is fragmented,
such people were not needed anymore, and they were transformed
into terrorists from heroes to terrorists. So exactly like
Mr. Yassir Arafat was transformed from a terrorist to a hero.
So we don't know as to what is the definition of Terrorism.
We do regret that the terrorists were actually horrific acts and
they were terrorist acts. But if they are terrorist acts, what
is the difference between those terrorist acts and the attacks
on Afghanistan when in 1998 attacks, cruise missile attacks on
Afghanistan. Neither of the two were declared and both of them
killed civilians. So we are confused as to what is the definition
of Terrorism. If it means killing civilians blindly, both of them
killed civilians blindly. And the fact is, I m not going to be
offensive , or rude about this, I m going to be frank. And I think
it is sometimes honest to be rude.
If the United States that it has acted for its defense, lets see.
The United States government tried to kill a man without even
giving him a fair trial. In 1998, they just sent cruise missiles
into Afghanistan and they announced that they were trying to kill
Osama bin Laden. We didn't know Osama bin Laden then. I didn t
know him; he was just a simple man. So we were all shocked. I
was one of those men who was sitting at home at night, I was called
for an immediate council meeting and we all were told the United
States have attacked Afghanistan. With 75 cruise missiles and
trying to kill one man. And they missed that man; killed 19 other
students and never apologized for those killings. So what
would you do if you were in our status; if we were to go and send
75 cruise missiles into the United States and say that we were
going to kill a man that we thought not believed that we thought
was responsible for our embassy, and we missed that man, and we
killed 19 other Americans what would the United States do? An
instant declaration of war. But we we! re polite. We didn't declare
war. We had a lot of problems at home; we didn't t want further
problem[s]. And since then, we are very open-minded on this issue.
We have said, that if really this man is involved in the Kenya/Tanzania
acts, if anybody can give us proof or evidence about his involvement
in these horrific acts, we will punish him. Nobody gave us
evidence. We put him on trial for 45 days and nobody gave
us any kind of evidence. The fact is that the United States
told us they did not believe in our judicial system. We were surprised
as to what kind of judicial system they have. They showed us as
to what they are doing to the people they just tried to kill a
man without even giving him a fair trial, even if one of us is
a criminal here, the police is not going to blow his house, he
must go to a court first. So, that was rejected. Our first
proposal, despite all these things, was rejected. They said
they will not believe in our judicial system, and we must give
him to New York. The second proposal that we gave after the rejection
of this first proposal we gave was, we are ready to accept
an international monitoring group to come into Afghanistan and
monitor this man s activities in Afghanistan. So that he does
nothing. Even that he has no telecommunications [--]. That
proposal was also rejected. And the third proposal we gave,
six months ago, was that we were ready, that we were ready
to try or accept a third Islamic country s decision, or the
trial of [--] in a third Islamic country, with consent of Saudi
Arabia and Afghanistan that was also rejected.
So we don't know, as to what is the problem behind. If bin Laden
was the only issue, we are still very open minded, and for the
fourth time, I m here, with a letter from my leadership that I
am going to submit to the state department hoping that they will
resolve the problem. But I don't think so [that] they'll solve
the problem. Because we think, and I personally think now that
maybe the United States is looking for a Boogy Man always.
Remember what Gorbachev said? He said, that he is going to do
the worst thing ever to the United States. And everybody thought
that he is going to blow the United States with nuclear weapon[s].
But he said, "I m going to remove their enemy". And
then he fragmented Soviet Union. And he was right. After he fragmented
Soviet Union, a lot of people lost their jobs in the Pentagon,
in the CIA, and the FBI, because they were not needed anymore.
So we think that maybe these guys are looking for a Boogy Man
now. Maybe they want to justify their annual budget, maybe they
want to make their citizens feel that they are still needed to
defend them.
Afghanistan is not a terrorist state; we cannot even make a
needle. How are we going to be a terrorist state? How are
we going to be a threat to the world? If the world terrorism is
really derived from the word terror , then there are countries
making weapons of mass destruction, countries making nuclear weapons,
forest deforestation, soil, air, and water pollution they are
terrorist states; we are not. We cannot even make a needle;
how are we going to be a threat to the world? So as I said in
the beginning, the situation in Afghanistan is not our creation.
The situation in Afghanistan reflects the world s image. If you
don't like the image in the mirror, do not break the mirror; break
your face.
Now, we are under sanctions. And the sanctions have caused a lot
of problems, despite that we are going under so many problems,
the 23 years of continuous war, the total destruction of our infrastructure,
and the problem of refugees, and the problem of land mines in
our agricultural lands, all of a sudden the United Nations, with
the provocation of Russia, is imposing sanctions on Afghanistan.
And the sanctions have been approved; we are under sanctions.
Several hundred children died a month ago, here it is (holds up
pamphlet). Seven hundred children died because of malnutrition
and the severe cold weather. Nobody even talked about that.
Everybody knows about t! he statues.
For us, we are surprised, that the world is destroying our
future with economic sanctions, then they have no right to worry
about our past. Everybody is saying that they are destroying
their heritage they don't have any right to talk about that. They
are destroying the future of our children with economic sanctions,
how are they going to justify talking about our past? I know
it s not rational and logical to blow the statues for, for retaliation
of economic sanctions.
But this is how it is. I called, after this
announcements, I called my headquarters, and I found out, I was
really confused, I asked them, why are they going to blow the
statues, and I talked to the head of the council of scholars of
people, who had actually decided this, he told me that UNESCO
and NGO from Sweden, or from one of these Scandinavian countries
Norway, Sweden, one of these they had actually come, with a project
of rebuilding the face of these statues, which have worn by rain.
So the council of people had told them to spend that money in
saving the lives of these children, instead of spending that money
to [restore these] statues. And these guys said that, No, this
money is only for the statues. And the people were really pissed
off. They said that, If you don't care about our children, we
are going to blow those statues.
[Person from the Audience yells, Takbeer! ]
[Audience responds, Allahu Akbar! ]
I don't say that he is right or wrong, the decision is yours.
Think of yourself. If you are in such a problem, what would you
do? If your children are dying in front of your eyes, and you
are under sanctions, and then the same people who have imposed
sanctions and are coming and building statues here? What will
you do? So, I talked to my headquarters today, and they said that
the statues have not been blown so far. But the people are so
angry. They are really angry, they want to blow them. And there
is Kofi Annan is going, you know Kofi Annan, the Secretary General
of United Nations? He went to [--], to Pakistan, and he said he
s going to meet our representative there. This man never bothered
to enter, to talk about these children, he never bothered himself
to talk about six million refugees, and he never talked about
[the] poverty of Afghanistan. He only goes to that region because
of these statues. And the OIC is also, they ve also sent a mission
to go to Kabul and talk about those statues. So we re really
confused. That the world is really caring about the statues, and
then they don't care about human beings.
I don't say we have to retaliate in blowing the statues; we have
not done that. But if we were to destroy those statues! , we would
have destroyed them three years before now, because we captured
those areas those areas three years before now. We didn t want
to blow them. And now the situation has come, and it s not our
decision. This is the decision of the scholars and the people.
And that is the decision has been approved by the Supreme Court.
We cannot reject this decision. So these guys are there, the OIC
and some, even I think some ministers from different countries
are there to save the lives of these statutes. I think they will
not be blown because of the concerns of these people. But it is
really, really ridiculous. These people don't care about children,
about people who are dying there, about the foreign interference
that still exists, they only care about the statues. And
I m sure they don't care about our heritage. They don't care about
our heritage; they only care about their picnic site one time.
Maybe they ll have a good picnic site there, seeing those statues.
They don't care about our heritage, I m sure. If they were
to care about our past, they wouldn t destroy our future. And
I m sure these sanctions which are imposed on our government will
never change us, because for us, our ideology is everything.
To try to change our ideology with economic sanctions will never
work. It may work i! n the United States, where the economy is
everything, but for us, our ideology is everything. [--] And
we believe that it is better to die for something than to live
for nothing.
We are still open-minded. We are still, we have still opened our
doors for negotiations, but our offices are closed everywhere
our office was closed in New York a week ago. They are trying
to shut our offices in other countries, trying to isolate us,
and they don't know that isolation is
counter-productive. Because they don't have experts; the only
experts they have are those people who speak English. They don't
even speak the language. Those experts who are advising the sanctions,
or the sanction committee have not even been to Afghanistan. And
they are setting benchmarks for us to achieve.
I m prolonging this speech, I m sorry, because I have been repeating
it everywhere, so I may have left some thing in it, and I will
let you ask me questions.
[Applause from Audience]
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